I’ve got a buddy who I think this applies to. There’s a history of abuse, absent parenting, drug use, jail time, etc. For whatever reason, he has been sucked into this conspiratorial world where nothing, literally NOTHING, is what it seems. He’s made many off handed comments about “the Jews,” and how “Hitler wasn’t as bad as we’ve been told,” but he’s never outright said anything I can pinpoint as an issue. What makes us hard to handle is that he isn’t exactly the sharpest knife in the kitchen, and so it’s had to even reasonably discuss these things because he’s clearly clinging to something emotionally or some sort of narrative, rather than seriously evaluating the facts.
This is exactly it. A viral ideology has taken hold of disaffected, disenfranchised white men. It has an in-group mentality so they can feel like they’re part of something. And the worst part is that other men are mobilizing this for power.
I forget where I saw this, but I have seen data that supports this general trend that “disaffected, disenfranchised, white men” are particularly drawn to this sort of conspiratorial thinking. Basically white men are so often the punching back for society that they internalize a kind of victim mentality when they are isolated from society (jail or by choice). Interesting, but sad. May God have mercy on us.
I mean, victimhood mentality is everywhere. Everyone has it, whether it’s fair or not. Now it’s white men’s turn. They’re still called to suffer righteously. But they’re being manipulated by leaders and pastors who are weaponizing the bitterness. God help us indeed.
It’s pretty easy to re-define evil as righteousness when there’s so much of it around. The George Floyd protests and the left’s continued defense of despicable humans come to mind
I’m grateful to see more and more men speaking up about this problem. I started seeing more and more of this kind of thinking 2-3 years ago, and it’s only exploded since then. Thanks for writing about it.
Sure, you can be convinced of that. But only if you'll willing to ask questions about the "WW2 is a lie narrative," as well. Is someone interested in truth? Or emotionally-satisfying answers? Because this is a giant list of books, videos, and other resources with primary-source documents that reveal the truth.
Most men who believe the "World War 2 is a lie" narrative refuse to engage with this stuff, because they don't actually want the truth. But as Christians, that's what we're called to explore.
Do you have any doubts about that narrative? We all want the truth I understand that. I’m just curious if you’ve swallowed the PWC full stop, or if you have doubts that just don’t go as deep.
Many people who I’ve seen other than you so far discuss this think Churchill was great, and have no idea what Stalin did, so it’s hard to trust counterpoints when the bias is the same you get from a high school curriculum. Not saying that’s you, but where do you land on this spectrum?
When did we start talking about "the PWC"? We're talking about the history of World War 2.
Does a man want to read actual history about it, or just accept emotionally-satisfying truths he saw in memes?
If you want the former, that's what the link is for. But like I said, men who prefer memes generally won't read real books about history because reasons.
I know what Stalin did. But you know what I also know? What the Germans did to the Soviets during their campaign eastward. You know what I also know? What Hitler and the Nazis believed about the Slavic people, and what they said about the Bible and Christianity.
You cite 4chan and dubious documentaries. Both of which are…dubious. 4chan just had a recent hack where a great deal of its political user base were from Israel. It is a site filled with bots, political bad actors, and schizophrenics. There hasn’t been a real movement that came out from that place in almost a decade.
Additionally, this is part of counter-culture. Counter-culture people will dress themselves in the garb of what shocks the mainstream. In the 80s it was leaning into the satanic panic with devilish images. Today, it is to be praising Hitler.
Interestingly, I think a chunk of the Christian LARP is also part of that; Christians have lost cultural capital so hard that to LARP as one is culture shock to the mainstream. They have been happy to push Christianity into a box as something other weird people believe and is ok so long as it never threatens the mainstream. I don’t think these people posing as Christians are actually Christians anywhere but when they type something online, but what does it say about the *real* Christians who have so happily wandered into mute irrelevance to anything mainstream?
I was reading your article looking for what is being talked about here.
You aren’t the first one that I’ve come across, so maybe my thoughts are scattered. But i keep coming across these broad criticisms and drawn out arguments talking about a group of people who have no name or way to he identified. I don’t hear of specific leadership, organizations, or individuals to criticize here.
Like, this boiled down to “I saw someone that might have identified as Christian say they like Hitler on 4chan”
Am I suppose to do inquisitions on my friends or through my Church over this? Do we need to dedicate a bunch of church resources to ensure nobody on the internet that identifies as Christian and likes Hitler?
Names and organizations give me things that I can watch out for, confront, and form a coherent response to. Broad criticisms against vague and anonymous online personalities does none of that.
I don’t see it personally and I don’t see any organization/institution/thought leader to challenge here. Of course I’ve run into anonymous internet racists before. I can think of some actual people that fit the description in the real world too. If I were to write about an issue of that thinking, I would cite those people.
The only person I can think of after reading your article is Nick Fuentes and his America First organization. If you wanted to talk about that, then just cite Nick Fuentes. He has plenty of awful ideas, followers, and poor character.
Don’t give me this nonsense of “do homework”, I can’t do homework for a topic you are refusing to clarify on. I’m asking you good faith questions and you are responding like I am trying to trip you up in a “gotcha”.
There is nothing troubling about this trend. It’s just throwing off the Jew lies of history. With the insane allied leaders determined to destroy Germans no matter what Hitler did, it’s silly to continue to see him as the chief villain of the war….. let alone the chief villain of the century.
You don’t know a great deal about WWII do you Will. You perhaps don’t know that the Germans never wanted to fight the Empire in either war. Could have killed all the British soldiers but let them go. Offered numerous peace deals including deals to withdraw from France and the Low Countries. And yet the fat drunk, in the pay of the Jews, started incinerating their civilians in terrorist bombing attacks.
It’s just some Jew typing. Evil blood libel nonsense. It’s not news. It’s just Jews. They declared war on Germany. They won that war. And they are still stealing from them.
I’ve got a buddy who I think this applies to. There’s a history of abuse, absent parenting, drug use, jail time, etc. For whatever reason, he has been sucked into this conspiratorial world where nothing, literally NOTHING, is what it seems. He’s made many off handed comments about “the Jews,” and how “Hitler wasn’t as bad as we’ve been told,” but he’s never outright said anything I can pinpoint as an issue. What makes us hard to handle is that he isn’t exactly the sharpest knife in the kitchen, and so it’s had to even reasonably discuss these things because he’s clearly clinging to something emotionally or some sort of narrative, rather than seriously evaluating the facts.
This is exactly it. A viral ideology has taken hold of disaffected, disenfranchised white men. It has an in-group mentality so they can feel like they’re part of something. And the worst part is that other men are mobilizing this for power.
I forget where I saw this, but I have seen data that supports this general trend that “disaffected, disenfranchised, white men” are particularly drawn to this sort of conspiratorial thinking. Basically white men are so often the punching back for society that they internalize a kind of victim mentality when they are isolated from society (jail or by choice). Interesting, but sad. May God have mercy on us.
I mean, victimhood mentality is everywhere. Everyone has it, whether it’s fair or not. Now it’s white men’s turn. They’re still called to suffer righteously. But they’re being manipulated by leaders and pastors who are weaponizing the bitterness. God help us indeed.
I wish such stuff does not involve "multipolarity" (sorry bringing geopolitics to the table)
It’s pretty easy to re-define evil as righteousness when there’s so much of it around. The George Floyd protests and the left’s continued defense of despicable humans come to mind
I’m grateful to see more and more men speaking up about this problem. I started seeing more and more of this kind of thinking 2-3 years ago, and it’s only exploded since then. Thanks for writing about it.
Can you be a Christian, not worship Hitler, and be convinced by the evidence that a lot of WW2 history is a lie? Trying to understand your line here
Sure, you can be convinced of that. But only if you'll willing to ask questions about the "WW2 is a lie narrative," as well. Is someone interested in truth? Or emotionally-satisfying answers? Because this is a giant list of books, videos, and other resources with primary-source documents that reveal the truth.
https://willspencerpod.substack.com/p/defeating-holocaust-denialism
Most men who believe the "World War 2 is a lie" narrative refuse to engage with this stuff, because they don't actually want the truth. But as Christians, that's what we're called to explore.
Do you have any doubts about that narrative? We all want the truth I understand that. I’m just curious if you’ve swallowed the PWC full stop, or if you have doubts that just don’t go as deep.
Many people who I’ve seen other than you so far discuss this think Churchill was great, and have no idea what Stalin did, so it’s hard to trust counterpoints when the bias is the same you get from a high school curriculum. Not saying that’s you, but where do you land on this spectrum?
When did we start talking about "the PWC"? We're talking about the history of World War 2.
Does a man want to read actual history about it, or just accept emotionally-satisfying truths he saw in memes?
If you want the former, that's what the link is for. But like I said, men who prefer memes generally won't read real books about history because reasons.
I know what Stalin did. But you know what I also know? What the Germans did to the Soviets during their campaign eastward. You know what I also know? What Hitler and the Nazis believed about the Slavic people, and what they said about the Bible and Christianity.
Click the link. Learn something new.
What does pwc here means ? Pwc that I know is a professional services firm, especially audit.
Right?? It stands for “post war consensus.” it’s a much abused and misunderstood term from RR Reno’s book “The Return of the Strong Gods.”
Ah that's what he mean in that question. Thanks for the answer
Who are these “Christian” young men glorifying Hitler? I’ve never heard about this.
Its noticeable in social media.
Is it only on social media? Like Groypers?
Do you see it in your church community?
The former (on social media).
If you read the essay, many had legitimate grievances against Western institutions. Dogwhistles like "noticing" is one of its sign.
Hope such toil does not involve russians
Who is actually doing this?
You cite 4chan and dubious documentaries. Both of which are…dubious. 4chan just had a recent hack where a great deal of its political user base were from Israel. It is a site filled with bots, political bad actors, and schizophrenics. There hasn’t been a real movement that came out from that place in almost a decade.
Additionally, this is part of counter-culture. Counter-culture people will dress themselves in the garb of what shocks the mainstream. In the 80s it was leaning into the satanic panic with devilish images. Today, it is to be praising Hitler.
Interestingly, I think a chunk of the Christian LARP is also part of that; Christians have lost cultural capital so hard that to LARP as one is culture shock to the mainstream. They have been happy to push Christianity into a box as something other weird people believe and is ok so long as it never threatens the mainstream. I don’t think these people posing as Christians are actually Christians anywhere but when they type something online, but what does it say about the *real* Christians who have so happily wandered into mute irrelevance to anything mainstream?
The “it’s not real” bros are the surest sign to me that it’s real.
I was reading your article looking for what is being talked about here.
You aren’t the first one that I’ve come across, so maybe my thoughts are scattered. But i keep coming across these broad criticisms and drawn out arguments talking about a group of people who have no name or way to he identified. I don’t hear of specific leadership, organizations, or individuals to criticize here.
Like, this boiled down to “I saw someone that might have identified as Christian say they like Hitler on 4chan”
Am I suppose to do inquisitions on my friends or through my Church over this? Do we need to dedicate a bunch of church resources to ensure nobody on the internet that identifies as Christian and likes Hitler?
Names and organizations give me things that I can watch out for, confront, and form a coherent response to. Broad criticisms against vague and anonymous online personalities does none of that.
“I can’t see it in my life so it doesn’t exist and you must be making it up or exaggerating.”
Go do your own homework.
Yes.
I don’t see it personally and I don’t see any organization/institution/thought leader to challenge here. Of course I’ve run into anonymous internet racists before. I can think of some actual people that fit the description in the real world too. If I were to write about an issue of that thinking, I would cite those people.
The only person I can think of after reading your article is Nick Fuentes and his America First organization. If you wanted to talk about that, then just cite Nick Fuentes. He has plenty of awful ideas, followers, and poor character.
Don’t give me this nonsense of “do homework”, I can’t do homework for a topic you are refusing to clarify on. I’m asking you good faith questions and you are responding like I am trying to trip you up in a “gotcha”.
There is nothing troubling about this trend. It’s just throwing off the Jew lies of history. With the insane allied leaders determined to destroy Germans no matter what Hitler did, it’s silly to continue to see him as the chief villain of the war….. let alone the chief villain of the century.
Behold, the meme version of history.
You don’t know a great deal about WWII do you Will. You perhaps don’t know that the Germans never wanted to fight the Empire in either war. Could have killed all the British soldiers but let them go. Offered numerous peace deals including deals to withdraw from France and the Low Countries. And yet the fat drunk, in the pay of the Jews, started incinerating their civilians in terrorist bombing attacks.
Uh huh. The poor innocent Germans… and their concentration camp system that they set up in 1933 to punish their political prisoners.
Was an okay penal system wasn’t it? We have prisons do we not? I would rather be in Auschwitz than on Rikers Island. How about you?
You don’t know much about German history do you? Here’s 800 pages about the camp system. Enjoy!
https://a.co/d/e3Ezovl
INB4 “all history I don’t like is Jew tricks”
It’s just some Jew typing. Evil blood libel nonsense. It’s not news. It’s just Jews. They declared war on Germany. They won that war. And they are still stealing from them.